tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4265318885816623719.comments2022-09-13T01:32:53.128-07:00future of art centerUnknownnoreply@blogger.comBlogger1540125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4265318885816623719.post-73376292230199674192009-12-15T04:56:48.693-08:002009-12-15T04:56:48.693-08:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4265318885816623719.post-72526049934169433852009-05-23T08:02:33.805-07:002009-05-23T08:02:33.805-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4265318885816623719.post-23068573175452910332009-05-15T16:35:00.000-07:002009-05-15T16:35:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4265318885816623719.post-83530158232063837252009-05-15T02:20:00.000-07:002009-05-15T02:20:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.davidhttp://regionmap.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4265318885816623719.post-35870789318534961892009-04-27T06:25:00.000-07:002009-04-27T06:25:00.000-07:00http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQaVezjjt34
Nation...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GQaVezjjt34<br /><br />National Public Radio explaination about student loans. If you worry about tuition, then you must worry about student loans.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4265318885816623719.post-47173726646863382152009-04-20T08:34:00.000-07:002009-04-20T08:34:00.000-07:00I think it has something more to do with making li...I think it has something more to do with making life drawing feel like a burden. <br /><br />I actually heard the illustrator say they haven't gone to life drawing in over 9 months. The illustrator, ACCD alumni, does childrens books, so these aren't high end anatomy studies. <br /><br />Praises Hogarth, but I don't get it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4265318885816623719.post-2547017573295672112009-04-20T08:10:00.000-07:002009-04-20T08:10:00.000-07:00I can't understand why anyone involved with illust...I can't understand why anyone involved with illustration would avoid life drawing. Unless they are cocky enough to assume mastery of the human form.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4265318885816623719.post-51523652074047933962009-04-19T04:09:00.000-07:002009-04-19T04:09:00.000-07:00[quote]No one loves a camp. We don't have "homecom...[quote]No one loves a camp. We don't have "homecoming" or a football team or the stuff that other schools have to promote "school spirit." We have our friends and colleagues and a network. We don't need the school for that.[quote]<br /><br />That was posted by some anonymous person in 2008 on this thread.<br /><br />I've encountered people who were trained under Burne Hogarth at ACCD that really didn't progress. As a matter of fact some of them actually avoid going to life drawing class, probably because they're reliving the 'boot camp' mentality they experienced. <br /><br />http://liheliso.com/buzz/archive/00000482.htm<br /><br />Do you think the boot camp mentality works?<br /><br />Well, it's a philosophy in instruction. Just like professional degree vs. liberal arts education.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4265318885816623719.post-91238401561610772332009-04-17T15:43:00.000-07:002009-04-17T15:43:00.000-07:00And again
I get something from Art Center asking ...And again<br /><br />I get something from Art Center asking for money.<br /><br />The first time was a set of 4/4 postcards BEFORE I received my DIPLOMA.<br /><br />I asked them to wait until the ink WAS DRY on said diploma, noting that this action was in extremely POOR FORM. That seems to be the essence of Art Center now: POOR FORM.<br /><br />I am as disappointed as ever in this institution and it's insatiable desire to spend money on useless, stupid things and not education.<br /><br />As an alumni, I have no warm fuzzies for the place, and neither does anyone I know because of consistent mis-management.<br /><br />FIX THAT. It was corrupt ten years ago, it is corrupt now.<br /><br />Student reps, what a sham. You want to continue what has gone on for years:<br /><br />Taking advantage and nothing else.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4265318885816623719.post-89578250973895074122009-04-16T08:50:00.000-07:002009-04-16T08:50:00.000-07:00Thank you for posting that interview. It now real...Thank you for posting that interview. It now really sheds some light on the Gehry situation last year. Remember the counter-petition that Patricia Oliver had started? It was literally filled with signatures from AIA members and other members of the architecture community. Apparently the AIA really knows how to help flood the air with support when one of their precious members might get a project rejected.<br /><br />Geez, I sure with the AIGA would flood my clients with letters when they're about to reject one of MY better designs (lol).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4265318885816623719.post-62086885514278198382009-04-15T10:34:00.000-07:002009-04-15T10:34:00.000-07:00Even the Ellwood building was cloaked in smoke and...Even the Ellwood building was cloaked in smoke and mirrors. Apparently, the Ellwood building was designed by James Tyler but never really given credit for it.<br /><br />Politics and ACCD go hand in hand. <br />http://www.volume5.com/tyler/html/architect_james_tyler_intervie.html<br /><br />It's a good read. Talks bout Craig Ellwood and Frank Gehry.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4265318885816623719.post-34767836240661029472009-04-09T08:28:00.000-07:002009-04-09T08:28:00.000-07:0020 years ago, the excuse was that Art center had v...20 years ago, the excuse was that Art center had virtually no endowment (whch was true), and the college needed to "get ahead" on things such as technology (which it did). Back then, the tuition rose 4% each and every term, even if the financial situation was good.<BR/><BR/>Back then, even though Art Center had some what you might call "celebrity" instructors, they were not paid as such. The highest paid "academic" staff member was paid $110,000 per year in 1994, and he was a department chairman.<BR/><BR/>Back then, the number of "highly paid" employees was comparably low to the number that exists today. The number of high-income staff members was boosted considerably, and many of them had marching orders that involved spending even more of your tuition dollars. That's the kind of stuff that got you design conferences in Paris and Barcelona. <BR/><BR/>Art Center got to thinking that they deserved a seat at the table of big-time international business, so they decided to invite themselves to the party. When there was no party to arrive at, they decided to throw the party to increase the school's profile. But as any good branding teacher at Art Center will tell you... A reputation is not created, it is earned. You must actually be what you purport yourself to be. Needless to say, the parties did not work, and the only people who got anything out of it were Koshalek and friends. They took millions of tuition dollars out of Pasadena and spent them in Europe and other luxury destinations.<BR/><BR/>Art Center is a small design school. A great one. BE that. If the stellar reputation goes international, then that's great. We'll have earned it. And we can feel good about that. But we can't feel good about feeding a machine addicted to poor spending habits.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4265318885816623719.post-51007290744455234682009-04-09T06:29:00.000-07:002009-04-09T06:29:00.000-07:0020 years ago you paid a high tuition because of hi...20 years ago you paid a high tuition because of high profile instructors. But some of them were just absolutely loony. If I had a choice between Burne Hogarth or Frank Reilly, I'd pick Frank Reilly knowing that one instructor was more about teaching.....not making you hypervigilant. <BR/><BR/>But certain instructors were chosen because they had that military disciplined no nonsense kind of behavior. You were taught a certain mindset, but that was 20 years ago.<BR/><BR/>What do you think is the Art Center mindset now that justifies the high tuition?<BR/><BR/>Well, I've been told the standards on entry level portfolios have been lowered to let more people in, yet the tuition is higher. I think this is a valid question. <BR/><BR/>I've encountered plenty of ACCD graduates from the old guard. There was a lot of nutty behavior then too. <BR/><BR/>Keep in mind the title of this thread is 'Inside Politics Discussion'. I think I'm allowed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4265318885816623719.post-13971851502355729232009-04-08T06:53:00.000-07:002009-04-08T06:53:00.000-07:0020 years ago the student population was 800-900.Ar...20 years ago the student population was 800-900.<BR/>Art Center had to keep increasing students to pay the bills from spending too much, (The California Way) Ellwood building only designed to house about 700 students. Full time staff was about 90 people strong. You didn't have to kiss the black hand back then either.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4265318885816623719.post-44779420198790267412009-04-08T05:04:00.000-07:002009-04-08T05:04:00.000-07:00[quote]I know for a fact that salaries at Art cent...[quote]I know for a fact that salaries at Art center have not done anything close to that kind of performance. All Art Center has succeeded in doing is to grow the staff immensely, and to have that increased staff spend tons of money on travel and frivolous things.[/quote]<BR/><BR/>I'd imagine the Ellwood building and property it sits upon was paid off long ago. The student ratio has not increased. It's been around 1500 students attending the school for about 20 years, despite purchasing the Wind Tunnel in downtown Pasadena. <BR/><BR/>I think the tuition is based more on retail value then it is about cost of running the place. It's akin to what property values were prior to the crash. It actually cost less to build a home then it did to buy one. You're just paying out the nose for a 'perceived' cost and demand. Has nothing to do with the value of running and maintaining the place.<BR/><BR/>I think it is just a 'keep up with the Jones' mentality'. It's a perceived cost equals value.<BR/><BR/>It's like that Brooks College or Art Institute mentality. Then it was supply and demand. The economy is a bust. There's gonna be less demand. Something is gonna give, and it's gonna be tuition. Just like housing prices. <BR/><BR/>Otherwise, the only people you'll be catering to will be trust fund babies. Most artists that made themselves had nothing to begin with.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4265318885816623719.post-22372800025780156742009-04-07T20:48:00.000-07:002009-04-07T20:48:00.000-07:00I agree with you that costs should be re-examined,...I agree with you that costs should be re-examined, especially those related to staff and travel.<BR/><BR/>That's unfortunate that you heard "one goes where one can" all too frequently. It sounds very arrogant to me.<BR/><BR/>I sincerely hope that Art Center gets back on track with a focus on the students, faculty, alums and EDUCATION.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4265318885816623719.post-4093266779201055822009-04-07T17:10:00.000-07:002009-04-07T17:10:00.000-07:00Apologies if I have stuck you in with the old guar...Apologies if I have stuck you in with the old guard. That "One goes where one can" comment was often repeated by one of them that I spoke with often.<BR/><BR/>You know, I can't adequately comment on what it actually costs to run the school today, but I have a very hard time believing that "necessary" costs have tripled since the early 90's. I know for a fact that salaries at Art center have not done anything close to that kind of performance. All Art Center has succeeded in doing is to grow the staff immensely, and to have that increased staff spend tons of money on travel and frivolous things. A cult of personality and excess became the standard. The whole guiding principle of modernism was not just ignored, but was mocked. Modernism is supposed to be the backbone of the school. Break it down to the core in an elegant and beautiful way. But Art Center's leadership thought that modernism was a aesthetic style, and not a philosophy. <BR/><BR/>I'm not looking for communism here, or even socilaism. I'm looking for balance and a conservative approach to finances. I think a business plan need to be developed that puts a conservative cap on how big the staff can and will become, and taking that into consideration, there should be room for the staff (that does remain) to be adequately and fairly compensated. I even favor job security and a tenured system for instructors.<BR/><BR/>Art Center should be well equipped and well staffed. But it does not need to become diabetic.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4265318885816623719.post-31806082247173888072009-04-07T13:03:00.000-07:002009-04-07T13:03:00.000-07:00You're right, if the school prices itself too low ...You're right, if the school prices itself too low it can be more selective and let in higher quality students. The school also risks leaving money on the table if it prices too low. That is, students might be willing to pay $100 more per quarter without Art Center sacrificing student quality. That $100 can go towards other programs, higher salaries for instructors, scholarships, etc.<BR/><BR/>Students (or their parents) considering art school or regular college take the cost of tuition into their decision-making. For example, a student accepted to an Ivy League college, a UC, USC and a CalState will take reputation and tuition into consideration, and other factors. The CalState will likely lose out. The other colleges can offer scholarships or an attractive financial aid package to make their choice more appealing.<BR/><BR/>Please do not ever lump me in with the old guard at Art Center (I know you don't know who I am but please don't do this). The comment "they go where they can" is irrelevant and insulting to this discussion.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4265318885816623719.post-71938078923921830622009-04-07T08:53:00.000-07:002009-04-07T08:53:00.000-07:00"Prospective students have choices and the cost of..."Prospective students have choices and the cost of tuition is one factor in their decision-making process."<BR/><BR/>Let me guess: "One goes where one can?"... I think we've heard that before, and it is typical of the old guard at Art Center.<BR/><BR/>"If Art Center were to only look at its own costs to set the price of tuition they might set the price too high or too low"<BR/><BR/>First, the school must better define what it considers "acceptable costs", and once it does, I seriously doubt they'd have any danger of setting the price too high.<BR/><BR/>And you seem to profess yourself to be a fan of economics here. So what if the school prices itself too low? The end result is the ability to be more selective in who you let inside the gates. Graduate quality will only rise, and with it, reputation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4265318885816623719.post-37700087060915743402009-04-06T21:38:00.000-07:002009-04-06T21:38:00.000-07:00"Except we're not talking about market economics. ..."Except we're not talking about market economics. We're talking about Art Center and how much it should cost a student to attend it. The cost of attending RISD should matter only to those attending RISD. Likewise, the cost of attending art Center should apply to those interested in Art Center.<BR/><BR/>If you're playing the game of "look over your shoulder" in regards to others, then you're playing the wrong game. Why don't we stick to our own costs and manage our own tuition?"<BR/><BR/>It doesn't matter that Art Center is a non-profit or not. Market economics are involved and being aware of the competition is good business sense for a non-profit. Prospective students have choices and the cost of tuition is one factor in their decision-making process.<BR/><BR/>If Art Center were to only look at its own costs to set the price of tuition they might set the price too high or too low. If the price is too high, students may choose to go elsewhere or complain that the school's not offering value. If the price is too low, the school is leaving money on the table, money that could go to other do-gooding school activities, such as scholarships, new equipment, higher salaries for instructors, other programs, whatever.<BR/><BR/>Art Center does not operate in a vacuum. It is a non-profit that competes for students.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4265318885816623719.post-65121295662259265302009-04-06T13:43:00.000-07:002009-04-06T13:43:00.000-07:00Also, Art Center is not just a non-profit, but als...Also, Art Center is not just a non-profit, but also a tax-exempt shool. <BR/><BR/>While we're not supposed to be profit-oriented, we do have to turn somewhat of a profit in order to ensure staying afloat. The question is, how much profit?<BR/><BR/>When you pad the payrolls with dozens of your friends over the years and award consulting contracts to others, they effectively suck-up that "profit" and you end up having to charge higher and higher rates. And you get far away from your core mission of providing education.<BR/><BR/>Just because you don't end up with a huge amount of black ink in the accounting books at the end of the school year, does not mean you have the right to become a parasitic leech (or implement new ones).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4265318885816623719.post-1464818950229558182009-04-06T13:37:00.000-07:002009-04-06T13:37:00.000-07:00Except we're not talking about market economics. ...Except we're not talking about market economics. We're talking about Art Center and how much it should cost a student to attend it. The cost of attending RISD should matter only to those attending RISD. Likewise, the cost of attending art Center should apply to those interested in Art Center.<BR/><BR/>If you're playing the game of "look over your shoulder" in regards to others, then you're playing the wrong game. Why don't we stick to our own costs and manage our own tuition?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4265318885816623719.post-18620870329576883122009-04-06T11:15:00.000-07:002009-04-06T11:15:00.000-07:00""Is tuition at Art Center out of line with compet...""Is tuition at Art Center out of line with competitive schools (loosely defined)? Why shouldn't Art Center charge the market rate for tuition?"<BR/><BR/>Using this method to judge tuition is akin to a type-2 diabetic using fellow fat people as a benchmark for measuring their blood sugar levels. In other words: It's best not to use a sick class of people as the baseline for your control group."<BR/><BR/>I'm sorry but I don't understand your analogy. My point was that costs are not what determine price (that's standard market economics). Paying high salaries just cuts into profit margins but should not be the determiner of the price of tuition. Art Center should charge what the market can bear. That takes into consideration the range of students' alternatives. That also takes into consideration whether or not prospective students believe that Art Center is not a functional place to bet their art and design careers on.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4265318885816623719.post-75139953155057029772009-04-06T11:11:00.000-07:002009-04-06T11:11:00.000-07:00"Uh, those that take a high-level salary and provi..."Uh, those that take a high-level salary and provide either no significant academic or income generating value. In my view, anyone paid over $90k at an educational institution should either be more than covering their own salary through realization of cost savings or they should be "key" contributors to bringin in sources of significant income in the means of donations or grants."<BR/><BR/>I agree that the folks you're describing should be at risk. I was wondering if there are any concrete moves afoot to dismiss some of these people by the interim president.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4265318885816623719.post-62781472318212866972009-04-06T08:08:00.000-07:002009-04-06T08:08:00.000-07:00First of all, Stanford did that 2 years ago, so it...First of all, Stanford did that 2 years ago, so it's not news. Second, Stanford can afford to do that because they have an endownment that is so large that it affords them the luxury of sending its entire student body to Stanford for free (if it wished to do so).<BR/><BR/>How do you get an endowment that large? You get a large enough collection of alumni that feels included enough and respected enough to even WANT to give a dime back. <BR/><BR/>I won't give a dime back until I'm confident that the money won't be squandered. Just getting a new president changes absolutely nothing in that regard for me. For starters, the school has not acknowledged its past shortcomings nor has it taken steps towards significant change. Like I said, getting a new figurehead is not nearly enough.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com